How To Avoid Being a Victim of Collusion
Collusion is rife in online-poker and personally I have experienced it regularly, particularly over the past few months. In this article I will explain what collusion is and give you tips and advice on how to avoid being made a victim. I will also explain how to profit from colluders!
What is collusion?
Collusion is when two or more players partner up to mislead the other players at the table and unfairly take their money. It is against the rules and regulations governing a poker site. There are a number of ways that online players can do this, including the most popular being:
- Using the telephone or msn messenger to give each other their hands.
How do colluders make money?
The most common way that colluders make money is by sandwiching innocent players. This can be most effective in No Limit games. The colluders take turns betting and raising heavily into a third player, forcing him or her to either keep calling ridiculous bets or keep folding out of every hand. Below is a hand history where I was involved, to illustrate this principle. The colluders are in bold.
***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 595951201 ***** NL $0.25/$0.50 Texas Hold’em – Tuesday, October 27, 14:17:14 GMT 2009 Table Neon 67 6-max (Real Money) Seat 5 is the button Total number of active players :
6 Seat 1: andreasz ( $93.63 )
Seat 2: speeler ( $54.86 )
Seat 3: eironas ( $116.29 )
Seat 4: Chalmare69 ( $305.67 )
Seat 5: BrasilNut ( $49.25 ) S
eat 6: vagwinner2 ( $63.30 )
vagwinner2 posts small blind [$0.25]
andreasz posts big blind [$0.50]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to BrasilNut [ 8h, Qh ]
speeler folds
eironas raises to [$1.75]
Chalmare69 folds
BrasilNut calls [$1.75]
vagwinner2 folds
andreasz raises to [$3]
eironas raises to [$4.25]
BrasilNut folds
andreasz folds
Returning uncalled bet [$1.25] to eironas
In the above example, I am the mug and they are trying to raise me out. If this was a real hand there is NO WAY that andreasz would fold there if he only had to pay $1.25 more to see the flop. Also, i saw them doing similar things before which added to my suspicions.
Here is another example:
***** Hand History for Game 596065272 ***** (Betfair) $50.00 USD NL Texas Hold’em – Tuesday, October 27, 06:26:49 ET 2009 Table Neon 94 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button Seat 1: pr0f4l3ty ( $64.75 USD )
Seat 2: BrasilNut ( $50.00 USD )
Seat 3: Foolsgold46 ( $15.05 USD )
Seat 4: eironas ( $50.00 USD )
Seat 5: KINDERI999 ( $59.00 USD )
Seat 6: papoutsias ( $297.01 USD )
papoutsias posts small blind [$0.25 USD].
pr0f4l3ty posts big blind [$0.50 USD].
** Dealing down cards
** Dealt to BrasilNut [ 3d 7d ]
BrasilNut folds
Foolsgold46 folds
eironas raises [$1.00 USD]
KINDERI999 folds
papoutsias calls [$0.75 USD]
pr0f4l3ty calls [$0.50 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9h, 5c, 3h ]
papoutsias checks
pr0f4l3ty bets [$2.25 USD]
eironas raises [$49.00 USD]
papoutsias calls [$49.00 USD]
pr0f4l3ty folds
eironas shows [Qh, Qc ]
papoutsias shows [Kc, Jh ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9c ]
** Dealing River ** [ Jc ]
eironas wins $100.25 USD from main pot
Now in the above hand Pr0 was the mug as papoutsias called a big raise, thus driving Pr0 out. Of course he had nothing (king high) and later on they will go down to the pub and divide up profits.
This is an example from a limit game. Notice how pair of 5 caps river lol!
***** Hand History for Game 608843829 ***** (Betfair)
$5.00/$10.00 Limit Texas Hold’em – Sunday, November 22, 11:41:14 ET 2009
Table Contrastes 44 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Seat 1: thebob ( $303.25 USD )
Seat 2: 781776 ( $457.50 USD )
Seat 3: docko ( $565.00 USD )
Seat 4: katk ( $266.04 USD )
Seat 5: musko ( $408.75 USD )
Seat 6: greece234 ( $519.62 USD )
peacemate1 posts small blind [$2.00 USD].
781776 posts big blind [$5.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to thebob [ Ks Kh ]
docko folds
katk calls [$5.00 USD]
musko calls [$5.00 USD]
greece234 calls [$5.00 USD]
thebob raises [$8.00 USD]
781776 calls [$5.00 USD]
katk calls [$5.00 USD]
musko calls [$5.00 USD]
greece234 calls [$5.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qh, Ts, 9s ]
thebob bets [$5.00 USD]
781776 calls [$5.00 USD]
katk calls [$5.00 USD]
musko folds
greece234 raises [$10.00 USD]
thebob calls [$5.00 USD]
781776 raises [$10.00 USD]
katk calls [$10.00 USD]
greece234 raises [$10.00 USD]
thebob calls [$10.00 USD]
781776 calls [$5.00 USD]
katk calls [$5.00 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5d ]
thebob checks
781776 bets [$10.00 USD]
katk calls [$10.00 USD]
greece234 raises [$20.00 USD]
thebob raises [$30.00 USD]
781776 calls [$20.00 USD]
katk calls [$20.00 USD]
greece234 calls [$10.00 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ Qc ]
thebob checks
781776 bets [$10.00 USD]
katk folds
greece234 raises [$20.00 USD]
thebob calls [$20.00 USD]
781776 raises [$20.00 USD]
greece234 raises [$20.00 USD]
thebob calls [$20.00 USD]
781776 calls [$10.00 USD]
greece234 shows [5s, 3d ]
thebob shows [Ks, Kh ]
781776 shows [2d, Qd ]
781776 wins $367.00 USD from main pot
How to spot colluders:
There are a few ‘warning bells’ that should be going off whenever you see a combination of these going on at any given time.
- Many players from the same country (OK, this one is weak but keep reading…)
- Two players joining at the same time (stronger evidence if from same country)
- Two players playing almost every hand with one player usually raising and the other re raising (In NL this can take the form of a min raise followed by a min re raise)
- If the two colluders get heads up, one of them will likely check/fold in a big pot where you would expect it to go to showdown (particularly in limit) or check down
- Look for showdown hands to see if one of them is showing down very weak hands like Ace/King high and were raising a lot earlier when you normally wouldn’t expect it from a normal player
- The players take their time when making decisions (this means that they are likely chatting away)
- If they leave the table at the same time, especially if they both disconnect simultaneously
How to beat colluders
Ok, the first thing that you SHOULD probably do, is email or phone the poker site immediately. Also make sure to keep any hand history as evidence. This will be useful if you lost money and want to claim it back. Meanwhile, if you keep playing the best way to beat colluders in No Limit games is to:
- Try to sit to the left of both of the colluders as it will make decisions easier.
- Call raises with big hands pre flop and hope that they try to raise you out by both of them going all in. See below for an example where I tried this (but got unlucky – I was 47% to win pre flop vs these two players, not bad):
***** Hand History for Game 596053525 ***** (Betfair)
$50.00 USD NL Texas Hold’em – Tuesday, October 27, 06:07:32 ET 2009
Table Neon 94 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: pr0f4l3ty ( $66.76 USD )
Seat 2: BrasilNut ( $61.09 USD )
Seat 3: Foolsgold46 ( $54.58 USD )
Seat 4: eironas ( $18.37 USD )
Seat 5: speeler ( $47.70 USD )
Seat 6: papoutsias ( $102.11 USD )
BrasilNut posts small blind [$0.25 USD].
eironas posts big blind [$0.50 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to BrasilNut [ Js Jc ]
papoutsias raises [$1.60 USD]
pr0f4l3ty folds
BrasilNut calls [$1.35 USD]
eironas raises [$5.90 USD]
papoutsias calls [$4.80 USD]
BrasilNut raises [$9.60 USD]
eironas raises [$11.97 USD]
papoutsias calls [$11.97 USD]
BrasilNut raises [$49.89 USD]
papoutsias calls [$42.72 USD]
BrasilNut shows [Js, Jc ]
eironas shows [Ks, Ah ]
papoutsias shows [Qh, As ]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3d, 7h, Qc ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4h ]
** Dealing River ** [ 3h ]
papoutsias wins $85.44 USD from main pot
papoutsias wins $53.11 USD from main pot
- Post flop, you also have to play passively and try to trap them. Make sure not to fold medium hands/draws to their raises. With some luck you are able to get both of them all in when one of them has nothing and the other something weak, or if you hit your draw and one of them had a big hand.
- In Limit: Also try to sit with position on them but less important than in NL. Limp with hands that make strong hands like small pocket pairs and suited connectors. Raise and re raise monster hands (you probably won’t be able to drive out the colluders but you will be able to drive out the regular players). Be prepared to play big pots as the hand will likely be capped until river. Therefore, even if you have a medium hand and it’s likely capped on, you have to be prepared to pay a lot on turn/river.
Lastly, here is an example of where colluders were really beaten at their own game! Thebob was kind of enough to send me this hand history.
**** Hand History for Game 608839565 ***** (Betfair)
$5.00/$10.00 Limit Texas Hold’em – Sunday, November 22, 11:25:23 ET 2009
Table Contrastes 44 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Seat 1: thebob ( $163.25 USD )
Seat 2: 781776 ( $548.00 USD )
Seat 3: docko ( $538.00 USD )
Seat 4: katk ( $87.04 USD )
Seat 5: musko ( $493.75 USD )
Seat 6: greece234( $473.62 USD )
thebob posts small blind [$2.00 USD].
781776 posts big blind [$5.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to thebob [ 8s Kd ]
docko folds
katk folds
musko folds
greece234 calls [$5.00 USD]
thebob calls [$3.00 USD]
781776 raises [$5.00 USD]
greece234 raises [$10.00 USD]
thebob calls [$10.00 USD]
781776 calls [$5.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ks, 7c, 2s ]
thebob checks
781776 bets [$5.00 USD]
greece234 raises [$10.00 USD]
thebob calls [$10.00 USD]
781776 raises [$10.00 USD]
greece234 raises [$10.00 USD]
thebob calls [$10.00 USD]
781776 calls [$5.00 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2d ]
thebob checks
781776 bets [$10.00 USD]
greece234 raises [$20.00 USD]
thebob raises [$30.00 USD]
781776 folds
greece234 folds
thebob wins $10.00 USD
thebob wins $152.00 USD from main pot
Conclusion
Do not be put off by online poker by colluders. Although it is a reality and it seems to be a growing problem, sites have security departments to do deal with them (supposedly). Also, if you do lose money against them, you are likely to be reimbursed. If you follow my tips, you create yourself a win/win situation since if you do beat them, great, if you don’t you can claim your losses if you gather the evidence and present your case.
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Passed with 4.5/5 stars!
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Go on! Have your say!
Comments on How To Avoid Being a Victim of Collusion
BrasilNut @ 11:40 am
Taken from betfair forum:
Just got back from Romania yesterday, checked out with some friends and trolled round internet cafes and wireless points –
1. true some cafes do use one account for multiple users, you pay before sitting down and then the owner pays u out if you have any cash left before they withdraw it into their own accounts, they take 10% of any winnings and you get free coffee and cake whilst your playing if your winning, if and when you lose your stack you just close down the comp.
2. there are a few syndicates that have say 20/30 members, they play in groups of 10 on one or more sites and they have players sitting around waiting in case someone has to leave or play for hours and get tired. I sat in a cafe in Timisoara where 3 guys were on one table on stars and won about $300 in an hour or so. Big celebration, def colluding and the other guys on stars just ddnt either care or notice. They always play 2 or more on one table.
3. they change sites every 3/4 days so as not to draw attention, one guy normally runs the syndicate who can pay the guys daily when they leave.
so conclusion dont play em unless they are on their own as they r def colluding and its blatant.
BrasilNut @ 2:23 pm
Here’s one that looks suspicious:
***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 630622154 *****
$25/$50 Texas Hold’em – Wednesday, January 06, 00:54:08 GMT 2010
Table Luxemburg 02 6-max (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of active players : 6
Seat 1: friedrice ( $980.50 )
Seat 2: Acehigh1977 ( $1,393.75 )
Seat 3: Bloeffer ( $669 )
Seat 4: butchpfc ( $1,193.59 )
Seat 5: snorpelorp ( $1,381.50 )
Seat 6: 1313131313 ( $1,041 )
snorpelorp posts small blind [$12.50]
1313131313 posts big blind [$25]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Acehigh1977 [ 3c, Ah ]
friedrice folds
Acehigh1977 raises to [$50]
Bloeffer calls [$50]
butchpfc folds
snorpelorp raises to [$75]
1313131313 calls [$50]
Acehigh1977 calls [$25]
Bloeffer raises to [$100]
snorpelorp calls [$25]
1313131313 calls [$25]
Acehigh1977 calls [$25]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ad, 5s, 3h ]
snorpelorp checks
1313131313 checks
Acehigh1977 checks
Bloeffer bets [$25]
snorpelorp raises to [$50]
1313131313 folds
Acehigh1977 calls [$50]
Bloeffer raises to [$75]
snorpelorp calls [$25]
Acehigh1977 calls [$25]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Kh ]
snorpelorp checks
Acehigh1977 checks
Bloeffer checks
** Dealing River ** [ 3s ]
snorpelorp checks
Acehigh1977 bets [$50]
Bloeffer folds
snorpelorp folds
Returning uncalled bet [$50] to Acehigh1977
** Hand Conclusion **
Acehigh1977 wins $622 from main pot
************ Game 630622154 ends ************
BrasilNut @ 9:23 pm
Hi pr0f4l3ty
Dont worry i’m not accusing you of colluding!
I can state for a fact that Betfair confirmed that 781776 and greece234 were colluding by returning TheBob (not his real name) losses in that session mainly due to the colluders (he is a friend of mine and has provided me this hand history). It was also too obvious they were cheating when they both disconnected at exactly same time and later came back to play hu nl and chip dump.
———————-
My JJ hand i agree seems pretty standard but I was just demonstrating effective strategies to beat colluders (by slow playing and letting them try to raise u out).
——-
andreasz raises to [$3]
eironas raises to [$4.25]
- To be honest I have only seen this type of fold as a misclick. The fact that these two guys did this strange play over and over and over again made me very suspiscious. If it happened only once I would just forget about it.
———————
eironas shows [Qh, Qc ]
papoutsias shows [Kc, Jh ]
I agree that its pretty stupid for them to play it like this, they are poor poker players in general and dont think about your range at all or how they can lose double. Higher limit colluders play it more intelligently like the way you suggested. But higher limit also means higher risk!
—————
If you have any suspiscious hands, feel free to post it here and we can discuss it.
Good luck!
pr0f4l3ty @ 5:26 pm
But now their play against me would make no sense at all.
When they get it in, they pay 3$ rake. So they dont win any money at all. And why would them want me to fold? I mean he has Queens.
When he shoves AI why should the next guy call?
1. When I had a better hand they would lose now 100$ instead of 50$
2. When I have a worse hand its now even more difficult to call that shove because I have to give the 2nd respect for a hand also.
When they would cheat, it would make much more sense when eironas would raise to 4.5$ and pap to 9$ and then I could maybe call with some of my range and then eironas would raise again. Or they would make some kind of play like this on the turn. But the way the hand was played I dont see any collusion there at all.
pr0f4l3ty @ 5:16 pm
oh sorry I got it wrong, I have to work on my english i guess, didnt know what a mug is. But still I believe in everything else I said. Even in this hand I dont expect them to collude only because he called with king high. I think its more likely that he puts the other guy on air and wants to make a galfond like hero call with king high.
pr0f4l3ty @ 5:06 pm
I am pr0F4l3ty. You blamed for collusion in the 2nd hand.
A friend send me this link.
Let’s begin with my hand:
First:
My range to do this play is pretty wide. I am in London right now, but I will check HEM when I am back.
I could have a fd but that’s actually very unlikely because I would normally go for the check/call on this board.
I also could have some air in my range and decide to donk bluff, just because the board is so dry.
It’s unlikely though that I have two overcards because I would call them more often than I would donk bet.
Most likely is that I’ve some semistrong hand like 66-88 and I don’t want the guy who minraised the button to check behind here.
But when he shoves AI that big I would only call with at least JJ so even when I would donkbet for value here with a Tx like hand I will fold it.
Second:
If I want to get papoutsias to put more money into the pot I would minraise to 2$ preflop because like you said in the first hand, he normally has to call it. Then on the flop I would check to eironas then he could bet 2$, pap would call and I could raise to 5$ or something likethat, eironas will call and pap would call also. And then the same on the turn/river. Or at least sth like that. But shoving QQ doesn’t make sense when we try to melk this guy. Actually shoving QQ there never makes sense
Some comments about the other hands:
3. Actually greece234 play looks pretty strange with his 53 but I would assume he is just a big fish. When I would see him doing this crazy stuff more often together with 781776 I maybe would get suspicous. But the
4. wtf? ak vs aq vs jj PF AI. I can’t see any collusion there at all
5. I am not a limit pro, but a hand like this happens all the time at limit tables. You also see a lot of acehigh at the river and also small pairs. Because you always get so good pot odds for a call. Still some donks will try to bluff alot.
1. In the first hand I would actually agree that it is a very bad fold there but still I see a lot of fishs making this fold. I also see people folding their last 5$ on the river in a 40$ pot or calling a flop shove with a gutshot or King high. All of this doesn’t make sense but still you’ll see it a lot. So you shouldn’t interpret too much into this strange behaviour. Most poker sites have very good anti collusion systems. When they realise that two people are sitting at the same table all the time or that they are folding monsters against monster or that one guy is minbetting or squeezing when the other one has a big hand and stuff like this, they will get banned very quickly.
If you want discuss it you can send me an email or tell me your skype/msn/icq.. acc or just message me at beftair.
BrasilNut @ 4:53 pm
Anybody have experienced being a victim of cheating themselves? Share your experiences…