4 replies to this topic

[BrasilNut]

Ok, I'll start....

Villain is solid: 20/14. Should i be shoving on turn? I suspect yes but is there a case for cc here? River i have tough decision and fold but i dont think he would be bluffing in that spot, especially on brick river but who knows...


***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 603678557 *****
NL $0.50/$1 Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, November 11, 22:51:32 GMT 2009
Table Fluorine 79 6-max (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of active players : 5
Seat 1: Bumpkin2 ( $0 )
Seat 2: LexyLinx ( $20 )
Seat 3: katuharja ( $127.70 )
Seat 4: musko ( $368.91 )
Seat 5: 1resiareca ( $136.75 )
Seat 6: Hero ( $132.49 )
BrasilNut posts small blind [$0.50]
LexyLinx posts big blind [$1]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Td, Ad ]
katuharja folds
musko calls [$1]
1resiareca raises to [$4.50]
Hero calls [$4]
LexyLinx folds
musko calls [$3.50]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ah, 7s, 9d ]
Hero bets [$9]
musko folds
1resiareca calls [$9]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jd ]
Hero checks
1resiareca bets [$21]
Hero calls [$21]
** Dealing River ** [ 5c ]
Hero checks
1resiareca bets [$51]
Hero folds
Returning uncalled bet [$51] to 1resiareca
** Hand Conclusion **
1resiareca wins $71.50 from main pot
************ Game 603678557 ends ************

Here are some insight some friends of mine gave me regarding this hand:

Either fold this hand pre from SB or 3-bet with it if villian has a "history" of BTN raising limpers light. As played after flop I think either lead turn again 50%p ($16) or CF turn (probably the wiser, more correct choice) rather than CC or CR. Only two draws on rainbow flop: oesd & gshot (8Ts JTs are viable light 3-betting BTN hands for LAGs), oesd hit on the turn and gshot improves to 5 "perceived" extra outs (but actually just 2).


With this in mind this makes leading out with AT on A79r flop in an inflated preflop pot to be an unwise choice since the only worst Ace that might fold is A8 and every other hand besides the draws crushes you that calls, but you occasionally get the one shell call from JJ, QQ, KK to see if you barrel the turn again.


I don't see why a solid player holding KK or QQ would try to barrel you off a perceived weak Ace on the river as played. So you only beat these two hands, A8, TJs and bluffs. Villian in this spot likely has at least AQ+.

[BrasilNut]

***** Hand History for Game 609388304 ***** (Betfair)
$50.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, November 23, 03:16:09 ET 2009
Table Neon 25 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Seat 1: ggfgfg ( $30.14 USD )
Seat 2: BrasilNut ( $51.27 USD )
Seat 3: Spagetw1n ( $48.75 USD )
Seat 4: totiss ( $7.94 USD )
Seat 5: BaracusT ( $94.70 USD )
Seat 6: SmokieJones ( $50.30 USD )
Spagetw1n posts small blind [$0.25 USD].
totiss posts big blind [$0.50 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to BrasilNut [ Tc Qc ]
BaracusT folds
SmokieJones folds
ggfgfg calls [$0.50 USD]
BrasilNut raises [$2.25 USD]
Spagetw1n folds
totiss folds
ggfgfg calls [$1.75 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jd, 8c, Ad ]
ggfgfg checks
BrasilNut bets [$3.93 USD]
ggfgfg calls [$3.93 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8d ]
ggfgfg checks
BrasilNut checks
** Dealing River ** [ Js ]
ggfgfg checks
BrasilNut bets [$45.09 USD]
ggfgfg calls [$23.96 USD]
BrasilNut wins $21.13 USD
ggfgfg shows [Ah, 7h ]
BrasilNut shows [Tc, Qc ]
ggfgfg wins $58.03 USD from main pot


My reasoning for above hand. ggfg is quite loose and open limping there his range is WIDE. He sees 61% of flops. I decide to raise with position with QTs to isolate the limping fish. This hand plays well against the opponent's range and is likely to be better, plus I have position.

Flop comes a good 8JA with 2 diamonds and I have double gutter. Now this is a great flop for me since with the Ace on flop I can represent it and I dont mind if I get called since I have 8 outs to my straight. I also expect to be called as he only folds 15% of flops to continuation bets. My only worry is if the villain has a flush draw then I only have 4 outs. Anyway, I make a standard 3/4 bet to pick up the pot and get called. At this stage, I have to put him on the following range:

A9, AT, A7

flush draw

KQ (yes he is bad enough to call there with KQ)

KJ

slow playing 888


The turn is quite nasty card for me making a flush possible. He checks to me which means he is very likely not to have flush but I decide not to bet this for a few reasons:

I am trying to represent the Ace and not the flush
I have double gutter and can still hit my outs (hopefully not drawing dead)
He is fishy and unlucky to fold an Ace at this point

However, a case can be made for betting it.

River is a Jack and he checks to me (he has checked 3 streets showing tremendous weakness):

At this point I cannot win by checking river so I have to take a stab at it. I was hoping for an offsuit rag to be on the river but the Jack is OK since I can represent it, even though the original plan was to represent a hand like AK/AQ. Therefore a try to go for a slow played monster JJJ, 888, AAA, or big flush and push all in to try to make his weak ace fold and he makes a hero call. Thinking about it I could have saved about $10 by just betting the pot since if he's calling for $13 he will likely call for $23. I think in long term this kind of line would work, especially against better players. Dont try to bluff calling stations!

[BrasilNut]

***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 611729424 *****
NL $0.25/$0.50 Texas Hold'em - Saturday, November 28, 01:37:45 GMT 2009
Table Gemini 56 6-max (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of active players : 6
Seat 1: Vitaeger ( $47.39 )
Seat 2: TurnipHead ( $14.66 )
Seat 3: Arca 12 ( $42.44 )
Seat 4: lianoz1 ( $80.68 )
Seat 5: BrasilNut ( $55.50 )
Seat 6: SmokieJones ( $48.75 )
Vitaeger posts small blind [$0.25]
TurnipHead posts big blind [$0.50]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to BrasilNut [ Jd, Kd ]
Arca 12 calls [$0.50]
lianoz1 folds
BrasilNut raises to [$2.25]
SmokieJones calls [$2.25]
Vitaeger folds
TurnipHead folds
Arca 12 folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2d, 9d, Jh ]
BrasilNut bets [$3]
SmokieJones calls [$3]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4h ]
BrasilNut bets [$8]
SmokieJones calls [$8]
** Dealing River ** [ 9c ]
BrasilNut bets [$8]
SmokieJones goes all-in
SmokieJones raises to [$35.50]
BrasilNut folds
Returning uncalled bet [$27.50] to SmokieJones
** Hand Conclusion **
SmokieJones wins $41.60 from main pot
************ Game 611729424 ends ************

[BrasilNut]

For above hand is my analysis:

Hand 1: Villain is nitty 19/10. Now he doesnt have AJ or KJ or I think he would have raised flop or turn...I really cant put him on A9 here as its not within his range unless A9s, very close. Only combo that is legitimate is JJ or 22 but thats such small range. Is there ever a case here to be made for calling this all in as it represents the perfect bluff card for a busted flush draw or possibly busted KQs gutshot + overcards? I guess read depedant and my read was that he was bluffing....but what u guys think?

Reply from poker pro friends:

A "nit" is not capable of bluffing their entire stack with complete air on the river after 3 streets of betting, otherwise they would be known as a "player" and not a "nit", right?


WTF is with your bet sizing on the flop and turn? You bet as though you are sbluffing or have a weak pair ... at least that's my impression. Then why make such a weak donkish "block"(?) bet on river (same amount as turn)? If it was to appear weak and induce a spazz bluff shove from a busted draw then you fist-pump-snap-call. Otherwise check river or bet it like a man and live with the consequences.


BTW your hand in 6-max on the flop is strong enough to warrant building up the pot in order to get your stack in.

--------------------------

fyi the top 19% of hands includes 9Ts, J9s, Q9s, K9s, and he probably plays 89s too (although it's not in the top 19%, it's close and it's obv hard to say exactly which specific hands this guy likes best)

I think a small river bet is fine vs this type of player. It's unlikely you're inducing a bluff from this player type, and when you bet big your hand is probably in the middle of your opponent's calling range(in other words: when you bet big on the river, when he calls he'll have better hands nearly as often as he can have worse hands...When you bet the smaller amount he can now call with any jack, lower pocket pairs etc.)
If your hand was an overpair or better you should be betting bigger, because now there's a lot more hands your opponent can have that are worse.

An example of this, is a couple weeks ago Ivan sent me a hand.

Don't have the exact hh, but basically Ivan 3bet and fishy button opener with TT. the button called a bet on the flop, turn, and Ivan shoved the river. The board read something like 85426. Ivan asked me if the river shove was bad, because the fish called the shove with a better hand. Basically my response was that shoving with TT is bad, but if Ivan had AA in this same situation it's probably an ok shove...

TT and AA are kind of the same, because they're both still overpairs on the river and the fish hasn't shown a ton of strength, but when we have AA there's now more worse hands villain can pay off with as opposed to TT...

[BrasilNut]

Villain is TAG. The question is since I have position, should I be jamming the flop with my double gutter? I felt calling was better (oop i would never call). Turn isnt too expensive and I have implied odds if I hit. The way he played it it was like he had a set of 8s or AT so my outs are really reduced, is it still correct to draw...just sux no showdown value. Would anybody ever push here?

***** Hand History for Game 617561045 ***** (Betfair)
$50.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, December 09, 11:22:48 ET 2009
Table Neon 130 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Seat 1: MrFancyPant ( $56.50 USD )
Seat 2: CLeGallais ( $145.01 USD )
Seat 4: vrodopsolis ( $91.12 USD )
Seat 5: saleen ( $0.00 USD )
Seat 6: BrasilNut ( $91.32 USD )
CLeGallais posts small blind [$0.25 USD].
vrodopsolis posts big blind [$0.50 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to BrasilNut [ Qs Jh ]
BrasilNut raises [$1.75 USD]
CLeGallais calls [$1.50 USD]
vrodopsolis calls [$1.25 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Td, 8c, Ad ]
CLeGallais checks
vrodopsolis checks
BrasilNut bets [$4.00 USD]
CLeGallais raises [$12.00 USD]
vrodopsolis folds
BrasilNut calls [$8.00 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2h ]
CLeGallais bets [$21.00 USD]
BrasilNut calls [$21.00 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ Qh ]
CLeGallais bets [$71.25 USD]
BrasilNut folds
CLeGallais wins $71.25 USD
CLeGallais wins $69.25 USD from main pot


----------------------------
I would play this hand differently postflop. Everyone is expecting you to cbet the flop last to act and especially A-hi flop your range could possibly include AK/AQ. Problem is that it is 4-handed and I doubt anyone ever folds an Ace in this spot to a cbet and if you do hold a big Ace then it actually has reverse implied odds since you likely get CR (and probably behind) or no action. For this exact reason I would tend to CHECK behind with the dgutter.

Reasons:
1. This keeps the pot size manageable, gives you a free card, and allows you to chase at least one street because the turn bet (if there is one) will be at most $4-$5.
2. Your draw is disguised since the obvious one is the flush draw. You hit on the turn or river and I think you still get paid off even playing your draw passively. Especially more so since you would unlikely hold an Ace to check behind on the flop increasing villian's confidence (falsely) to stack off with it.
3. You can choose to play some POKER and utilize 7 extra diamonds (as potential bluff outs) in addition to your bonafide 8 straight outs if the scare card hits on turn or river.
4. If no one has an Ace (or better) then their weakness will be obvious by turn or river and you can bluff at the pot at that point with the likelihood of actually holding 14 outs if you include both of your "overcards".

Maybe if you had a monster draw with a hand like QJdd then you can get more aggressive and 3-bet flop and jam either flop or turn. But not QJo.

------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like I'm back to disagreeing with Steve!...checking flop is burning money

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"checking [flop] is burning money"

I don't see why you think checking behind here is so bad? You cbet this flop with Q-hi and the best situation you can hope for is winning $5 if everyone folds. Whoopee Doo. If you get CR big then you are (usually) throwing money away by chasing a poor draw.

If no one has an Ace (or better) then you can still bluff on the turn by either betting (if checked around) or raising a weak stab at the pot (by a more marginal pair). Either way if you don't take it down right there on the turn, you still get to see a river since they only call the turn without an Ace (or better). Then maybe spiking the Q on river might be the winner ... who knows?

I'm thinking more along the lines of implied odds. All 3 players are playing deep with 180xBB stacks. If you spike the dgutter on turn or river, and the villian has big Ace, two pairs, or a set then he is going to stack off. By delaying the cbet bluff in this situation with position you uncover who actually has a monster and who is genuinely weak; anyone with a set or two pairs (with the intention of CR flop) and it gets checked around 3-way will definitely pot the turn with two diamonds on flop OOP. You invest $5 to possibly win extra $85.

Why settle for $5 crumbs (at best) or possibly lose more? Just my line of thinking. Maybe I need further enlightenment from others as to why checking here is so bad. Is it because aggressive poker is generally winning poker? I'm thinking more of winning big pots than trying to always outplay others every time.

Here's a situation maybe similar to Alex's hand below. It is different in the sense that I hold TP and not a draw but in villian's perception of Alex's range, it is equivalent to Alex holding AJ/AQ/AK on the flop.
I open UTG $3.50 KQdd with $100, MP calls, and BB with $42 calls. Flop Q67r. BB checks, I cbet $6 into $11 pot, MP folds, and BB calls. Turn is brick 2. BB checks. What's the best play? There are no good realistic draws in this board except for 89s and villian has to be a bonafide LAG to play this hand from BB with a half-stack. I really thinking checking behind here is the right play, because my range is quite clearly defined as AQ KQ JJ TT AK (as played) or an overpair (hoping to induce a raise), and if I bet again on turn then total bets are equivalent to half of villian's half-stack. If villian CR shoves then I am probably committed even knowing I am probably behind with zero redraws since he only has $20ish more, or if he CC turn and shoves brick river then I probably have to call. Anyways, I vbet $11 into $23 pot and villian CR shoves $32.50 and I reluctantly call and get shown a flopped set of 7's. But the main tell was that I open-raised UTG, cbet flop, and bet turn ... my range includes KK AA AQ especially UTG ... and villian STILL CR-shoved me. Usually an easy fold if villian had a full stack.
But from Alex's perspective if he had a big Ace instead of a draw then he is implying that he has showdown value and would stay in to the flop CR and probably look villian up on the river shove.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

checking is probably profitable, but betting is much more profitable.

when we bet
-we're building a pot in position
-we're betting the turn when called so any player that calls with Tx can c/f on the turn
-when we bet $4 into $5 on the flop it's only costing ~$2.75 in reality because we have equity in the pot.